3Bet range vs position X
Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:18 pmI want to create a note that shows 3Bet ranges vs different opening positions for 6max turbo SNGs. So there will be 5 different notes, like "3Bet vs EP Opener", "3Bet vs MP Opener" etc. I don't want to include cases where the open raises are all-ins or 3bets are all-ins because it's a huge difference whether all-ins are involved or not in SNGs. And I only want to include cases where the opponent open-raised and not just raised after limpers. And I want to look at only 4-6 player hands because the bubble and heads-up play dynamics are so much different from 4-6 way play IMO.
My definition for a note (foe example: 3Bet vs MP Open) is like this:
Player (vs MP he can be in CO, BTN, SB or BB, I don't care so no position filter here):
a) Players Dealt Into Hand Between 4 And 6
-> We should get only 4-6 player hands.
b) First Preflop Action Raise
-> Make sure to exclude cases where player limp-raises, raise must always be his first action.
c) Reraise Opportunity 3Bet (Facing 2Bet)
-> There is only one raise when the action comes to player. Not really sure if I need to have this, because there is already 3Bet mentioned in next filter.
d) Raised Preflop Any 3Bet
-> Player 3Bet, but could have shoved also and I don't want to include shoves.
e) NOT (Raised All-In) <- Not sure about if this works correctly...
-> Are we excluding only 3bet shoves here? What if player 3bets non-ai, then gets 4-bet and then 5-bet shoves and we see his hole cards; I would like to include that hand but does this filter exclude it because the 5bet was an all-in?
Opponent:
a) Position of Active Player of Selected Exactly 2
-> I'm not 100% sure if I should use "Active Player", "First Raiser" or "Lead Agressor"? Is the "Active Player" here the open raiser (=opponent) or 3bettor (=player)? Position 2 should be ok for MP.
b) Raised First In
-> Does this mean only open-raise or would it also include cases where there were limpers before the raiser? If so, then maybe I need to change this to First Preflop Action Raise and that Opponent had open opportunity preflop to make sure it really is an open-raise?
c) NOT (Raised All-In) <-- not sure if this works either as intended, to exclude only openshoves?
-> I want to exclude cases where the open-raiser just open-shoved. But does this also exclude cases where opener open-raised, then got 3bet and then 4bet shoved? In other words, does the "Raised All-In" cover only the first raise or does it cover also further raises that could be shoves?
?) Hmm... what if I add "Opportunity to 4Bet" here? Would that make sure that initial raise and 3Bet were not all-ins? But what if MP openrases, then player 3Bets and then someone else 4Bet shoves -> Then initial opener would not have 4Bet opportunity, so this would exclude such case, right?
I'm not 100% sure if I need to use Opponent-filters at all in this case, could this all be done just with Player filter? Maybe I need to use the opponent to make sure that the raise Player is facing is an openraise and not just any 2Bet?
At first glance the 3Bet vs open from position X seems pretty simple, but when creating and testing it and thinking about possible scenarios with further action, especially with the all-in/non-all-in situations and 3+ bets, then it becomes a bit complicated IMO.
Any comments would be appreciated!
My definition for a note (foe example: 3Bet vs MP Open) is like this:
Player (vs MP he can be in CO, BTN, SB or BB, I don't care so no position filter here):
a) Players Dealt Into Hand Between 4 And 6
-> We should get only 4-6 player hands.
b) First Preflop Action Raise
-> Make sure to exclude cases where player limp-raises, raise must always be his first action.
c) Reraise Opportunity 3Bet (Facing 2Bet)
-> There is only one raise when the action comes to player. Not really sure if I need to have this, because there is already 3Bet mentioned in next filter.
d) Raised Preflop Any 3Bet
-> Player 3Bet, but could have shoved also and I don't want to include shoves.
e) NOT (Raised All-In) <- Not sure about if this works correctly...
-> Are we excluding only 3bet shoves here? What if player 3bets non-ai, then gets 4-bet and then 5-bet shoves and we see his hole cards; I would like to include that hand but does this filter exclude it because the 5bet was an all-in?
Opponent:
a) Position of Active Player of Selected Exactly 2
-> I'm not 100% sure if I should use "Active Player", "First Raiser" or "Lead Agressor"? Is the "Active Player" here the open raiser (=opponent) or 3bettor (=player)? Position 2 should be ok for MP.
b) Raised First In
-> Does this mean only open-raise or would it also include cases where there were limpers before the raiser? If so, then maybe I need to change this to First Preflop Action Raise and that Opponent had open opportunity preflop to make sure it really is an open-raise?
c) NOT (Raised All-In) <-- not sure if this works either as intended, to exclude only openshoves?
-> I want to exclude cases where the open-raiser just open-shoved. But does this also exclude cases where opener open-raised, then got 3bet and then 4bet shoved? In other words, does the "Raised All-In" cover only the first raise or does it cover also further raises that could be shoves?
?) Hmm... what if I add "Opportunity to 4Bet" here? Would that make sure that initial raise and 3Bet were not all-ins? But what if MP openrases, then player 3Bets and then someone else 4Bet shoves -> Then initial opener would not have 4Bet opportunity, so this would exclude such case, right?
I'm not 100% sure if I need to use Opponent-filters at all in this case, could this all be done just with Player filter? Maybe I need to use the opponent to make sure that the raise Player is facing is an openraise and not just any 2Bet?
At first glance the 3Bet vs open from position X seems pretty simple, but when creating and testing it and thinking about possible scenarios with further action, especially with the all-in/non-all-in situations and 3+ bets, then it becomes a bit complicated IMO.
Any comments would be appreciated!
