Fold to PF 3Bet

[allwind]

I am new to PT 4. I made my HUD, and I notice how everybody folds way more to 3bets PF, than the previous tracking software I used. I found this for myself.

My HUD has:
Stat: Fold to PF 3Bet Value 80.

The pop up has:
Fold to 3Bet After Raising 68.

I checked for an other villain and those stats respective were 53% and 76%. Now, that is huge.

What is the difference between these 2 stats? How can I can learn how the Fv3b Stat and other stats in general are defined?

Thank You.

[kraada]

You can find out how any stat is defined by looking in the Configure -> Statistics window. All stats are defined there with an easy to read formula to help you understand what they are saying.

In this case, Fold to PF 3Bet After Raise limits the scope to only 3bets you faced after making the initial opening raise. The general Fold to PF 3Bet is the percentage that someone folds to any 3bet, whether or not they were already involved in the hand.

[allwind]

It is also where I can do custom stats. Thank You for the link.

A friend told me, that the standard Fv3b stat in PT 4. It includes likes this. CO opens. BN 3bet. Now we have a cold call 3bet or cold 4bet spot. Now we fold 72o in the blinds. In my opinion this information is irrelevant in regards to Fv3b PF. I had this wrong stat for about 1 month. With all your respect. I believe the current Fv3bet PF stat should be deleted, and replaced by the other stat, or one stat, where you fold after having put in that second bet. So sure it should never include hands, where you are yet to put in that second bet PF. Anybody understanding the concept I explained above, I presume will agree with me.

[kraada]

We disagree. There are times that people want to analyze exactly those spots - and it is true that you can face a 3bet without having made a previous raise. That is precisely why we include Fold to PF 3Bet After Raise in our default statistics list - so that people like yourself can use it.

[BlackRain79]

We disagree. There are times that people want to analyze exactly those spots - and it is true that you can face a 3bet without having made a previous raise. That is precisely why we include Fold to PF 3Bet After Raise in our default statistics list - so that people like yourself can use it.

Your reasoning here is bizarre. Do you play poker sir? When people add a Fold to 3bet stat to their HUD they want to know how often someone folds to 3bets when THEY WERE the original raiser. Knowing how many times someone folded 72o when there was a raise and re-raise in front of them is pretty much useless information as the OP pointed out. I think it is fine if you want to include both stats but I think the current terminology is highly misleading. Most people are simply going to add Fold to 3bet to their HUD and think that it means how often someone folds to a 3bet when they were the preflop raiser. I know I certainly did because that is what you assume the stat means when you add it because that is what makes sense. In my opinion you should make this distinction much more clear especially for people who have switched over from HEM because they get this stat right.

[kraada]

I'll see what I can do about getting that distinction added to our guide for HEM conversion. However, we believe it makes far more sense to call the unmodified stat "Fold to PF 3Bet" rather than something hackneyed like "Fold to PF 3Bet Facing Any Action" or some such. The extra condition applied is when you have made the initial raise -- that's the extra restriction, and I understand why you want it. It's what I use in my HUD as well -- but that's why we have the stat. If you search our stat list for fold to pf 3bet you'll see them both right next to one another, and I hope you'll agree with me that when you see the two names next to one another it's extremely clear which one you want to use.

[BlackRain79]

However, we believe it makes far more sense to call the unmodified stat "Fold to PF 3Bet" rather than something hackneyed like "Fold to PF 3Bet Facing Any Action" or some such.

Sure I can understand why. From a non-poker player's perspective it makes perfect sense. But this program is made for poker players. We don't think of "Fold to PF 3Bet" in that manner and if you ask anyone who plays this game seriously they would tell you that this is useless information also. As the OP stated this stat where someone folds to any 3bet should just be eliminated altogether. This is why I have to wonder sometimes if the people who make these programs (HEM too) actually play the game.