Cache and Custom Stats

[grobin]

Will PT4 in the future support cache for custom created stats? Right now having a lot of custom stats really slows down the HUD.

[WhiteRider]

I do not expect this system to change. I can't say for sure of course, but it would be a significant change.

[grobin]

With PT4 you are basically cutting support for custom stats in HUDs which was the best feature of PT3. I'm afraid this is a dealbreaker for me.

Yes there are many more useful built-in stats, but many are still missing. Especially when you want to seperate more advanced stats for 3-bet+ and non 3-bet pots you have to build your own custom stats.
Without cache support, popups are just too slow to load. And I'm using SSDs in raid0, so it's hard to blame PC performance. And there is no way now to use something like kraada's amazing hand range popups (https://www.pokertracker.com/forums/vie ... 88#p148871) because it would take ages to load

[kydechuk01]

With PT4 you are basically cutting support for custom stats in HUDs which was the best feature of PT3. I'm afraid this is a dealbreaker for me.

Yes there are many more useful built-in stats, but many are still missing. Especially when you want to seperate more advanced stats for 3-bet+ and non 3-bet pots you have to build your own custom stats.
Without cache support, popups are just too slow to load. And I'm using SSDs in raid0, so it's hard to blame PC performance. And there is no way now to use something like kraada's amazing hand range popups (https://www.pokertracker.com/forums/vie ... 88#p148871) because it would take ages to load

Definitely agree 100%. I already touched this issue before - https://www.pokertracker.com/forums/vie ... 58&t=37226

I'm also have PostgreSQL on SSD-Raid0 and I have a massive custom builded HUD for PT3. I rebuilded it for PT4 and PT4 is have really slow drawing speed of popups for this type of machine spec. PT3 draws it instantly! Also I imported my PT4 HUD to some of my friends started using PT4 as their first tracking software and on their's machines with ordinary HDD my HUD popups loading 3-5 seconds, even they have played only 1-5k of hands in database.

Our goal was to eliminate the need for most custom stats with our default stat list.

This is really not good way for PT4! Such powerful instrument to build custom stats - and without speed of using it!

[grobin]

I do not expect this system to change. I can't say for sure of course, but it would be a significant change.

Are default stats hardcoded or something? Is adding stats difficult or would more stats slow down import speeds too much?
What is the reason that we can't have our custom stats cached?

I know there is no need for housekeeping in PT4, but the import speeds are about 4-5 times slower, so overall the time it takes to import a large amount of hands is roughly the same.
Am I missing something here? What are the advantages of not having to do housekeeping and updating cache?

[kraada]

We have done extensive tests on our end and found that comparatively when housekeeping in PT3 is factored in, that PT4 is faster - sometimes considerably depending on your hardware configuration.

The cache is updated invisibly to the user - we can only do that with a fixed cache. Caching custom stats would require a variable cache as we had in PT3, and we decided the downsides outweighed the upsides.

[kydechuk01]

We have done extensive tests on our end and found that comparatively when housekeeping in PT3 is factored in, that PT4 is faster - sometimes considerably depending on your hardware configuration.

I cant agree with you - and I wrote about my own benchmarking here, and I considered all the time (import+housekeeping) in those tests:
PT4 import much slower than PT3 (comparisons results inside)

I agree with many things - PT4 is more smart, more featured (oh God, thank you for using cache in replayer and new HUD editor), has better usability and interface, but not at all with its faster than PT3. It's really slower! I looked at PT4 beta performance on my fast machine, on machines of my friends, notebooks - it's work slower everythere - main tabs, HUD drawing.

The cache is updated invisibly to the user - we can only do that with a fixed cache. Caching custom stats would require a variable cache as we had in PT3, and we decided the downsides outweighed the upsides.

So can you just add additional cache for custom stats with the same invsible maintaining and everybody will be happy?

[pt4pt4pt4]

kraada's amazing hand range popups (https://www.pokertracker.com/forums/vie ... 88#p148871) because it would take ages to load

looking for something like this. Thanks for pointing it out.

[kraada]

kydechuk,

Try the newly released beta - it has PostgreSQL tuning functionality which should improve performance across the board for you.

We have been working hard to improve performance, but adding caching for the custom stats is not as simple as it sounds, there is a great deal of complex work that must be done behind the scenes since we will not go back to a system that requires manual housekeeping maintenance. As such, I don't see the development team changing their minds on that issue anytime soon.

[grobin]

I don't think any optimization can replace the speed of having stats cached.

I've never had any complaints about import speeds or housekeeping time in PT3. It is relatively fast and my cache table has 700+ columns in it. When I imported large amount of hands in my new PT4 database, I was also happy with the result. What I'm saying is that manual imports speed are pretty much irrelevant. You can just leave your PC turned on overnight if you do large imports. What you can't do, is wait a long time for stats to show up while you're playing poker!

As for live importing, there is so little data to be processed comparing with manual imports, it really shouldn't be any problems there.

Current solution of not having to do manual housekeeping reminds me of "we cured the disease by killing the patient". You pretty much killed the support for custom stats
Come on guys, this is supposed to be pokertracker, where you can customize everything!