PokerTracker

Hi,

in a topic discussing All-in Expected Value WhiteRider wrote the following:

Boss Media do not include mucked cards in their cash game hand histories and in this case it is only possible to calculate all-in EV for hands which your opponent wins and we see all cards (when you win we do not see your opponent's cards). This would skew the results massively so all-in EV is not calculated at all for games like this.

There's still a AIEV line in the PT4 Beta that can be used. This is looking nothing like the one in Hold'em Manager (huge $EV difference). Should this exist? If so, how is this calculated?

Thank you in advance.

This shouldn't be calculating for Boss hands - if you only see their cards if you lose the results of that line are going to be massively skewed because they won't show the wins that will balance things out - you'll just look like you're massively below the expected results.

kraada wrote:This shouldn't be calculating for Boss hands - if you only see their cards if you lose the results of that line are going to be massively skewed because they won't show the wins that will balance things out - you'll just look like you're massively below the expected results.

This was true for how it looked in HEM, however, this is how my AIEV looks like in PT4:

hi all
for a few time ago to this time in bossmedia although u cant see the opponents card, u are able to see the hand the villain had as it is show by hud
i mean the villain mucked his hand but the result (if goes to showdown) is in hand history.
see you

Boss recently re-introduced the inclusion of mucked cards for all-ins so this may have been enabled in PT4. I will try to find out the current situation for you. If you have any hands where the EV looks wrong please let us know so that we can check it out.

This might be true for Boss Media. I'm playing on Svenska Spel, who might not have interepret this as of yet. I'm not seeing any mucked cards on the table, in the hand history or in the replayer in PT4.
I still see a % over the villain in situations where he mucked. This % change from street to street as well when ran in the replayer. I'm not sure where its getting the information from.
As has been said, when I ran HEM, my expected value was ten times greater than it is now. I'm just curious how this expected value is calculated. It can't be accurate unless you're able to read the mucked cards but not able to interpret them in the HHs in PT4.

The percentages in the replayer when an opponent's hand is not known is based on equity against a random hand.

If the hole cards are not always shown at showdown we should not be calculating luck adjusted results (we do not like the term "EV" as you can only calculate real expected value when you know a player's hand range - which we do not know in these cases). If we only see their hole cards if you win (or lose) the results would be massively skewed.

kraada wrote: we should not be calculating luck adjusted results

Does this mean that the All-in adjusted line in my graph is only temporarily there as a bug?

Thanks for the help.

We've gotten a few conflicting reports of late whether or not they are showing hands in call cases when there is an all-in that reaches showdown. If they are not showing hands in all cases, this is a bug - we are working to figure out what is the actual behavior and once we do we will adjust PT4 accordingly.

Hi,

I'm sorry for bumping this thread with yet another question.

Is there anyway to tell how PT4 calculates the All-in luck adjustment? I'm currently running below AI adj. luck, although far from how it said in Hold'em Manager (I know it should be skewed in HEM). However, it sais my avg. AI equity is 24%, I've got a negative non-showdown winnings and yet I've got a possitive all-in adjusted luck.

I've recently seen that hands that I muck does not show villains equity street by street in the Hand History through the HUD (button on the tables). Does this fact mean that the all-in adjusted luck is counted towards the actual money-loss. And in that case, the all-in adjusted luck is calculated when I win a hand an villain does not muck his hand, and the times where Villain wins the hand and Hero doesn't muck his hand.
This should make the differences between actual winnings and All-in adjusted luck less skewed, no?

I know certain skins seems to be showing the mucked hands in the HH. This is however not the case for Svs.

Also, is the fact that hands that I muck not showing Equity street by street a bug?

Thank you in advance, and I'm sorry if the question is hard to understand.