Application: HoldemLuck/TourneyLuck v0.20 (Updated:2/28/10)

[32Ford]

I've just tried dropping back to the previous version of PT3 because I use Tourneyluck a lot, and now all my tournament table types have gone. I cant enter any results.
Is it not possible to go back to a previous version that worked with tourneyluck ?

[kraada]

Not with an upgraded database, no.

[zubs1aa]

+1. about time that PT just build this themselves rather than rely on some 3rd party app that the owner doesn't care about anymore

1st point, yes. It would really fit to Pokertracker getting the info inside of the software. 2nd point: Holdemluck is for free. If you don't need to pay for the software, don't have any expectations. I'm working for some Linux projects and I really appreciate when someone does good work in his spare time.

Ciao

Achim

I'm not blaming/criticising holdemluck dev at all. he can keep up his sw or not as he likes. I was chiding PT for freerolling for so long on the back of freeware for a long requested feature. Now that the freeware is inoperable, lots of people get up in arms about the missing feature and obv it's a long way off since the work didn't start a long time ago to self-incorporate this into PT

[sdfg2000]

hi , need some help here . I play mtt and satellite,45man SNG and 180man SNG .
my data in sng luck is :
4158 allin hands out of 48228 ,
red line difference is -2733BB .

the green line is reach up to 7900BB smoothly
the red line is slowly downward.

so what does it tell ?
do I allin w/-EV preflop or just miss most postflop ?
do I just not getting cards preflop or just miss postflop ?
how big is this downswing if in cash game ?

[random001]

+1. about time that PT just build this themselves rather than rely on some 3rd party app that the owner doesn't care about anymore

1st point, yes. It would really fit to Pokertracker getting the info inside of the software. 2nd point: Holdemluck is for free. If you don't need to pay for the software, don't have any expectations. I'm working for some Linux projects and I really appreciate when someone does good work in his spare time.

Ciao

Achim

I'm not blaming/criticising holdemluck dev at all. he can keep up his sw or not as he likes. I was chiding PT for freerolling for so long on the back of freeware for a long requested feature. Now that the freeware is inoperable, lots of people get up in arms about the missing feature and obv it's a long way off since the work didn't start a long time ago to self-incorporate this into PT

Yeah this is really bad to me, as I really really find this feature important, and it's been how long now since this came out? This and the the other features missing from tournament graphs are very disapointing. I'm glad it now recognizes tournaments end, it's so nice to not have to enter every single SNG but not having this and just being told "future release" is pushing me away pretty hard

[kraada]

hi , need some help here . I play mtt and satellite,45man SNG and 180man SNG .
my data in sng luck is :
4158 allin hands out of 48228 ,
red line difference is -2733BB .

the green line is reach up to 7900BB smoothly
the red line is slowly downward.

so what does it tell ?
do I allin w/-EV preflop or just miss most postflop ?
do I just not getting cards preflop or just miss postflop ?
how big is this downswing if in cash game ?

Consider a player with two hands that were all in.

In one he had AA vs KK and in the other he had KK vs AA. He won his AA vs KK and lost his KK vs AA. Prima facie, it would seem that his luck evened itself out.

Now in a tournament imagine that he had AA vs KK in the 10/20 level and won a whole stack of 1500 - so he won 75BB with expectation around 45BB, and was 30BB above expectation. He had his KK vs AA in the 150/300 level and got it all in for 3000. He lost 10BB with an expectation to lose 8BB so was 2BB under expectation.

He looks 28BB lucky - was he?

Yeah this is really bad to me, as I really really find this feature important, and it's been how long now since this came out? This and the the other features missing from tournament graphs are very disapointing. I'm glad it now recognizes tournaments end, it's so nice to not have to enter every single SNG but not having this and just being told "future release" is pushing me away pretty hard

I wish I could give you a more definite answer on these features and I really wish I could say they'll be out tomorrow. We are aware of how much these features are desired, and we are going to add them, but I don't have more information than that for you.

[sdfg2000]

Consider a player with two hands that were all in.

In one he had AA vs KK and in the other he had KK vs AA. He won his AA vs KK and lost his KK vs AA. Prima facie, it would seem that his luck evened itself out.

Now in a tournament imagine that he had AA vs KK in the 10/20 level and won a whole stack of 1500 - so he won 75BB with expectation around 45BB, and was 30BB above expectation. He had his KK vs AA in the 150/300 level and got it all in for 3000. He lost 10BB with an expectation to lose 8BB so was 2BB under expectation.

He looks 28BB lucky - was he?

so what can I get from this pic ? if we can get any useful info then what is the point of this software ? how about use Tournament Dollars ?

[zubs1aa]

Consider a player with two hands that were all in.

In one he had AA vs KK and in the other he had KK vs AA. He won his AA vs KK and lost his KK vs AA. Prima facie, it would seem that his luck evened itself out.

Now in a tournament imagine that he had AA vs KK in the 10/20 level and won a whole stack of 1500 - so he won 75BB with expectation around 45BB, and was 30BB above expectation. He had his KK vs AA in the 150/300 level and got it all in for 3000. He lost 10BB with an expectation to lose 8BB so was 2BB under expectation.

He looks 28BB lucky - was he?

There are two ways to look at allins. One, which I think cash players are more likely to look at, would be the way you explained it, that the player is running 28bb below expectation. (This is sensible when looking at 10,000 hands of cash say.)

However, for tournaments that is a silly way to look at things. Stacks and how deep you are in a tny will affect the # BB lucky +/- you show on the chart. IMO most of us that play tournies want simply to know what % of my allins did i win vs expectation, irrespective of stacks. SO in the above example the player won 1and lost one when his expectation was (depending on how you look at it) an expectation of net 1 (meaning he got it in ahead one time, behind one time - this is a view saying *what percent of the time that I am ahead do i hold?*).

or, his expectation was 80% for AA > KK and 20% for KK > AA = 1 and he won 1 so he is exactly at expectation.

I think you probably nee all three methods and all will be happy. It shouldn't be hard.

3 needed:
Exp (BB)
Exp ( % allin when ahead that is won vs % expected to hold in that situation)
Exp ( Allin equity % vs % won)

[PJs Ronin]

IMO most of us that play tournies want simply to know what % of my allins did i win vs expectation, irrespective of stacks.

Never, have I agreed more with a statement than in this instance. This, imo, is the heart and soul of tourney play. No other stat or report comes close.

[kraada]

However, for tournaments that is a silly way to look at things.

Perhaps it was not obvious from the way I phrased things - I completely agree with this assessment. I was trying to tease that out by using the intuition that the player in question was neither lucky nor unlucky.

But the above quoted analysis is exactly what TourneyLuck currently does.

We can build a stat to show what percentage of all-ins you won, what we can't build (yet) is how many you would have been expected to win - I too look forward to the day this can be done.