PT3 losing mind share (mpethy article)

[funkyj]

mpethybridge is a respected poster and NLHE coach who specializes in analyzing poker databases for leaks (i.e. using tools like PT3 and HEM)

He has written this article

http://mpethypoker.com/poker-articles-free/switch-tracking-software-hold-em-manager-vs-poker-tracker-3

advocating folks who already have PT3 switch to HEM because HEM is that much better.

I really hate the idea of discarding the time I've invested (forget about the money) in learning PT3 but mpethy's opinion carry's a lot of weight.

(IMO) It would behoove the PT3 team to, at the very least, read the article above and work hard to address the criticisms quickly. It would probably be good if, after you addressed his concerns, you contacted him and showed him your changes. E.g. it would be great if, 6-9 months from now he wrote a follow up article about how his main concerns with PT3 had been addressed and he was no longer recommending HEM over PT3.

I like PT3 but I worry that you guys may go the way of the Palm Pilot and Blackberry if you keep losing the support of experts like Mpethy who's opinion carries a lot of weight.

Other than the Kraada advanced HUD with "stat A colored by stat B", I can't think of any PT3 features that I find compelling advantages (for me) over HEM.

I'm sticking with PT3 for now but I'll probably reevaluate at the end of the year (there is only so long I can wait for the current replayer to be overhauled). Good luck!

[PJs Ronin]

When you have two competing products there will always be differences of opinion as to which is 'better'. I've even seen this sort of debate come down to a visual preference taking precedence over functionality.

I get the impression from the article that the user prefers HEM and has espoused several reasons why this is so. Unfortunately, the comparison is limited to only three functional elements and I for one would not suggest the importance, or otherwise, of these elements over other areas of functionality. Indeed, I will leave it to the PT3 support/developers to comment on the validity of the claims made.

However, there are two areas where I feel I can comment as a user of HEM and PT3 for more than 3-4 years.

First. HEM cannot differentiate between 6-max and short FR tables. This is of no real consequence if the only game you play is 6-max cash. But, I'm here to tell you that if you play FR cash or tournies, then any analysis of your game will be 'skewed' because HEM will insist on categorizing short hands as 6-max and there is not a damn thing you can do about it. I do not believe PT3 makes the same mistake... either for ring games or tournies.

Second. The PT3 HUD is configurable 6 ways to Sunday. Don't like a stat?... build your own and put it in the HUD. Want to give a HUD profile a meaningful name like "FTP-6Max-ThursdaysOnly-50NLHE"?... go right ahead. Want to color a HUD stat based on the value of a different stat?... no problem. Those are just a couple of functions from the top of my head... have a guess how many of those functions are available within HEM?

I could go on. However, when I read articles that are so obviously slanted when comparing two outstanding products (yes, there are elements of HEM that I would kill to see in PT3), then I ask myself if there is an ulterior motive. In this instance, and despite the author's assertions to the contrary, I think the answer is yes.

[bloodndef]

mpethybridge's article makes me sick. I mean it's certainly +EV for him to take HEM's money when they're doling it out, but it's wrong on so many levels to be taken seriously.

The end of the argument is this: with PT3 you can program stats. So if you disagree with how a stat is made, you can change it. Comparing the default stats and HUDs of PT3 and HEM is trivial. I know dozens of online poker professionals and they don't use either. They use a custom HUD for PT3 they made or purchased, like the ones shown on this page:

http://crushthegame.com/download-poker-software-tools

This HUD for PT3 shows hand ranges. HEM is SOL in that department. What's so funny is that I know about 2 dozen players who have purchased PT3 after owning HEM because they realize they'll never get a HUD that shows hand ranges, clickable stats, or any other custom features without it. Here are the words of some other professionals who have nothing but positive things to say about PT3 and the custom HUDs available for it:

http://crushthegame.com/forum/kind-word ... he-support

"Thanks Blood for the great HUD. I only just started using it, but it is already having an affect on my game."

"I have been using ctg profiles and autorate rules for some months now and i have seen a significant upward trend in my winrates,the hud and profiles give the users a significant 'edge' over the opposition and i would unreservedly recommend these products to beginners and experienced poker players alike!!"

"Since I started using the ctg stats few months ago I have been playing the best online poker ever, from an average .82/100 to 2.56/100! It's that good, can't wait to get that avg to 3 and over with the new DESTROYER HUD! Bring em on."

It's not even a question how much more powerful PT3 is than HEM. But I can understand the OP's confusion. PT3 does not let customers know the power of their product and in my mind they should address these issues:

1. Custom stats are locked in the trial version. I understand the reason why, but it's a shame because customers trying out PT3 and HEM cannot see the incredible advantage PT3 has during their trial, so they often go with the "cheaper" HEM.

2. The "Repository"/"Get More" section is (last time I checked) filled with a lot of junk and not maintained well, discouraging a strong and proud custom stats marketplace.

3. PT3 has had great customer service for people who want to build their own stats, but has forgot about the people who would rather forgo that process and just buy customer-developed stats/HUDs (which is incidentally a pretty large market). It's as if Apple made the Iphone for developers of Iphone apps but had no App store or way for users to purchase these apps! Apps sell Iphones! PokerTracker has made a "developer friendly" powerful product in PT3, but has left "developers" or power users with no marketplace to sell a custom product to the "app" customer base! So again, there is no custom stat visibility to new customers. I don't even own an Iphone and I can name 3 apps for it off the top of my head. PT3 needs to market its user-generated custom content like an Iphone markets apps.

Because with no custom stat visibility to new customers, PT3 fails to illustrate its advantage over HEM... other than fanboys like me ranting in threads like this. Seriously though, the only time I hear about the power of custom stats is in PokerTracker forum threads. And that's the real shame.

[bloodndef]

BTW, an updated version of the 3-bet stat that mpethy criticizes PT3 for has been available for over a year now here: http://crushthegame.com/free-custom-sta ... -tracker-3. But no one other than forum readers knows this, so I'm not surprised at mpethy's confusion.

[WhiteRider]

Thanks for the link and comments, everyone - we appreciate constructive criticism and suggestions, and I will make sure that the development team see this thread.

[tarix]

It would behoove the PT3 team to, at the very least, read the article above and work hard to address the criticisms quickly.

Since he gets paid to sell HEM there is nothing to address. All of his criticisms in that article are untrue except for the lack of a $EV stat which we have already stated is in development.

I'm sticking with PT3 for now but I'll probably reevaluate at the end of the year (there is only so long I can wait for the current replayer to be overhauled).

This is now in development and we are paying particular attention to replayer requests that have been made in our Feature Requests forum.

BTW, an updated version of the 3-bet stat that mpethy criticizes PT3 for has been available for over a year now here: http://crushthegame.com/free-custom-sta ... -tracker-3. But no one other than forum readers knows this, so I'm not surprised at mpethy's confusion.

It is also a built in stat under the name of "Fold to PF 3Bet When Raised".

We welcome continued discussion about this topic and we will definitely be reading this thread.

[bloodndef]

BTW, an updated version of the 3-bet stat that mpethy criticizes PT3 for has been available for over a year now here: http://crushthegame.com/free-custom-sta ... -tracker-3. But no one other than forum readers knows this, so I'm not surprised at mpethy's confusion.

It is also a built in stat under the name of "Fold to PF 3Bet When Raised".

Oh! Well, since this is the case, mpethy's "article" has even less merit! I was assuming what he said could have been true - my bad - and that "Fold to PF 3Bet When Raised" was not in the default stats yet as it wasn't last time I checked which was a looooooooooong time ago.

[kraada]

Just to clarify, about his first objection that you can't review sessions in PT3 -

If you go to the Sessions tab, you can choose either Sessions - By Time or Sessions - By Table in the drop down - if you multi-table you want Sessions - By Time. Highlight your session. Filter as you'd like. Then use the Play Hands icon at the bottom of the Session Hands report and your hands will load, in order, as filtered, into the replayer.

[PJs Ronin]

I think this thread highlights one (of millions) problem with internet based software reviews, and that is of timing. The quoted article does not include a time stamp so it loses relevance as products like HEM and PT3 continue their development cycle. What 'may' have had a degree of accuracy some time ago may no longer be so.

I find the simplest way of comparing products is to look at their online forums. Specifically, I look for posts/threads biatching about functionality... functionality that is missing, or doesn't work, or doesn't work as expected, or that continually seem to be bug ridden. In that regard, if you compare PT3's forum, HEM's forum and the dedicated slots on the 2+2 forum, the result is like day and night.

[MoniesRemovalPLC]

i just switched from HEM to PT3, I used HEM for over a year and became pretty accustomed to its system, and i would say it is more user friendly that PT3. However HEM lacked several key features - not being able to create / edit stats is the main one obviously, aswell as things like not allowing secondary stat colour coding which is amazingly helpful. the reason i switched was to be able to use the way more advanced HUD / stat capablities available in PT3, overall i am pretty happy with the switch to PT3, and if you use it with some of the premade software available out there (i use crush the game) then its the most advanced tool for preflop and postflop hand range analysis when multitabling. Being able to quickly view a players range in a spot is massively important in the games i play and allows me to makes better decisions than my ooponents who just have a number to look at mostly. Alos i have to say that PT3 has the most dedicated support network i have ever seen for any software online, i never wait long for a response to my forum posts (and there have been many already sry guys) and there always detailed, concise and to the point.
Draw backs with PT3 are its a fairly advanced in terms of learning how to navigate the program, which is expected as its a more advanced program but you need to put in some time to get accustomed to it. As far as technical drawbacks the positioning descriptions in its stats make it hard to get detailed reads on players hijack, co, btn, sb and bb tendencies, just grouping them as LP and blinds is a lttle vague since many players tendencies vary greatly between these 5 positions. However i understand that will be updated soon. If the PT3 were to simply update that, and also include some more default stats (basically just copy all HEM In position and OOP default stats that dont already come with PT3) then it d be a far far superior product (i mean its already better but those things would make it so theres no comparision beteween the 2. anyway just my 2 cents worth