Probe Bet in Specific Situation

[Mr Tiger]

So in PT terms:

I call in SB vs BU. Then I donk the flop, the opponent calls. I bet the turn, he calls. I bet the river. In this case the turn bet is not Cbet, but river bet is.

Am I right?

[Mr Tiger]

Not in PokerTracker terms - you can cbet the flop if you were the last preflop aggressor. You can only cbet the turn if you cbet the flop, and you can only cbet the river if you cbet the turn. Doing anything else breaks the chain (if you get raised and you 3bet you can still keep cbetting but if you get raised and call you cannot).

It seems my previous post was wrong. In that example both bets (on the turn and on the river after donking the flop) are not Cbets. So, any call during the hand makes it impossible to make Cbets later in the hand in PT terms. Am I right now?

[kraada]

That's really close - the only time you can call and cbet later is if you call preflop and later raise preflop and the raise you make is the last one. For example, if you limp in early position and 3bet which is called, you can then cbet the flop.

[Mr Tiger]

Thanks for clarification. Here a question about Donk Bet occurs. Quotation from the database schema documentation:

flg_t_donk - "If the player donk bet the turn, this is set to true, otherwise it is false. A donk bet is when the player calls a cbet on the flop out of position, then bets first on the turn."

Quotation from the column description:

cnt_t_donk=sum(if[holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_t_donk, 1, 0]) - "Number of times player bet the turn after calling the flop."

The column description covers also floats situations, so, it's evident, that it is not complete. But my question is about type of the flop bet. Do we have to call exactly Cbet on the Flop to have an opportunity to DonkBet the Turn? For example: we call in BU vs CO, the opponent checks the flop, we bet, he calls. Then he bets the turn first. Is it a donkbet?

[kraada]

I think so, but I'll need to double check for you to be completely certain.

[Mr Tiger]

The stat has to be the Probe Bet on the Turn (bet turn after PF aggressor checked back on the flop) in 2bet pot (one time raised pot), when there are only 2 players saw the Flop. Please check:

(cnt_t_probe_2b_pot_2pl / cnt_t_probe_2b_pot_2pl_opp) * 100

cnt_t_probe_2b_pot_2pl
sum(if[holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_t_bet and lookup_actions_f.action LIKE 'X' AND (lookup_actions_p.action LIKE 'C' OR (lookup_actions_p.action LIKE 'CC' AND holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_limp)) AND holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_face_raise AND NOT(holdem_hand_player_detail.flg_t_has_position) AND holdem_hand_summary.cnt_players_f=2, 1, 0])
......................................................

To be absolutely correct I need to add "AND NOT (holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_3bet_def_opp OR holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_4bet_def_opp)" to each column to exclude CC3bet and CC4bet situations.

[Mr Tiger]

And, please, also check this stat for the River:

(cnt_r_probe_2b_pot_2pl / cnt_r_probe_2b_pot_2pl_opp) * 100

cnt_r_probe_2b_pot_2pl
sum(if[holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_r_bet and lookup_actions_t.action LIKE 'X' and holdem_hand_player_statistics.enum_f_cbet_action = 'C' and NOT(lookup_actions_f.action LIKE '%R') AND
NOT(holdem_hand_player_detail.flg_t_has_position) AND (lookup_actions_p.action LIKE 'C' OR (lookup_actions_p.action LIKE 'CC' AND holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_p_limp) OR lookup_actions_p.action LIKE 'R') AND holdem_hand_summary.cnt_players_f=2, 1, 0])
...........................

And here as I'm calling Cbet on the Flop I don't need "OR lookup_actions_p.action LIKE 'R'".

[Mr Tiger]

Thanks for clarification. Here a question about Donk Bet occurs. Quotation from the database schema documentation:

flg_t_donk - "If the player donk bet the turn, this is set to true, otherwise it is false. A donk bet is when the player calls a cbet on the flop out of position, then bets first on the turn."

Quotation from the column description:

cnt_t_donk=sum(if[holdem_hand_player_statistics.flg_t_donk, 1, 0]) - "Number of times player bet the turn after calling the flop."

The column description covers also floats situations, so, it's evident, that it is not complete. But my question is about type of the flop bet. Do we have to call exactly Cbet on the Flop to have an opportunity to DonkBet the Turn? For example: we call in BU vs CO, the opponent checks the flop, we bet, he calls. Then he bets the turn first. Is it a donkbet?

Following this question I've got a doubt about Float Bet stat. According to DB schema documentation:

flg_t_float - If the player float bet the turn, this is set to true, otherwise it is false. A float bet is being in position, calling a flop bet, then betting the turn when checked to.

So, if We raise PF, call Flop Donkbet and bet Turn vs check, is it a Turn Float?

P.S.

I think so, but I'll need to double check for you to be completely certain.

Have you checked this?

[Mr Tiger]

Following this question I've got a doubt about Float Bet stat. According to DB schema documentation:

flg_t_float - If the player float bet the turn, this is set to true, otherwise it is false. A float bet is being in position, calling a flop bet, then betting the turn when checked to.

So, if We raise PF, call Flop Donkbet and bet Turn vs check, is it a Turn Float?

Checked. The answer is "yes".

[kraada]

P.S.

I think so, but I'll need to double check for you to be completely certain.

Have you checked this?

Just did - it does not need to be a cbet in that case. We have instances in the database where you never face a cbet but have an opportunity to donk on the turn, therefore a cbet cannot be required.