Donk bet definition

[Longchamp]

Shoudn't this trigger a donk bet note to husuris:

husuris: raises $0.25 to $0.50
Longchamp: calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [7s Jc Ts]
husuris: bets $0.75
Longchamp: raises $1.39 to $2.14
husuris: calls $1.39
*** TURN *** [7s Jc Ts] [As]
husuris: bets $2
Longchamp: calls $2

Or is it disregarded because he CBets flop, even though I raise and becomes the last agressor ?

And if thats the case, shoudn't it trigger a turn CBet note then ?

[kraada]

I would have expected that to trigger the donk flag - could you attach the original hand to a support ticket so that we can look into this for you?

[pasita]

Please keep the general public informed on the judgement.

[BillGatesIII]

Kraada, you said this in an older PT3 post:

A bet is a donk bet on the turn/river if it is (a) an opening bet on the street in question and (b) there was a person who would have had the chance to cbet if the action had reached him. Please note that "cbet" for (b) for the river means that the person would have had the chance to triple barrel if the action had been checked to him (and double barrel on the turn) as cbets for the turn/river in PT3 are defined to be double/triple barrels.

and

A turn bet is a donkbet if and only if the player making the bet:
(A) Did not raise preflop.
(B) Check/called a c-bet on the flop.
AND:
(C) The preflop aggressor has not had a chance to act yet on the turn.

https://www.pokertracker.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=23406&p=111714

[kraada]

I know, and there has been considerable internal discussion on the point of donks and floats. I will be double checking into this and posting back.

[pasita]

If you plan to finally fix things, please consider keeping things simple and remove the requirement of contbet (if is now there... I'm extremely confused at the moment). I don't think the general idea of donking or floating are tied to contbetting, they're tied to the last aggressive action on previous street.

[BillGatesIII]

Interesting subject.

I did some internet research and most articles take the preflop raiser into account for a donkbet (or lead) definition.

FWIW, Holdem Manager uses:

Donk Bet Flop How often someone bets into the flop OOP after calling a preflop raise. 3-bet pots are not included.
Donk Bet Turn How often they donk bet the turn OOP after calling a raise preflop and calling a flop bet.
Donk Bet River How often they donk bet the river OOP after calling a rasie preflop and calling a flop and turn bet.

In the example from Longchamp, I think husuris should get a cbet turn flag and not a donk bet turn flag.

[pasita]

In the example from Longchamp, I think husuris should get a cbet turn flag and not a donk bet turn flag.

That's exactly 180 degrees from how I would understand both Cbet and Dbet. FWIW, I think HEM has just followed PT's lead and taken the (imo incorrect) dependency on preflop action and contbetting into the equation.
Say we have a limped pot, button bets flop and turn and gets calls, then BB bets out on the river... or someone bet/calls flop OOP, then bets out on turn....I think these are perfectly fine donk bets. If not, then there's no stat yet to describe the situation (i.e. change of the betting lead).

I think Urban Dictionary (nearly**) nails it.
"In poker, donk betting means betting out of position (you must act first) without the betting initiative (you did not make the last bet or raise on the previous betting round.)"

The definition isn't interested in whether this is flop, turn, river, lake or ocean, it's also not interested in what happened in betting round i-2, i-3, i-n, it's only looking at the aggression on the previous round.

** hmm well technically this would also count SB betting into a limped pot on the flop, since technically it was BB who made the last raise preflop. I could live with that error if the definition is clear enough. Or require a raise other than the forced bets (i.e. blinds) on the previous street.

[kraada]

CBetting in PokerTracker is definitely only when you bet or raise at every opportunity - you raise preflop, bet the flop and bet the turn to cbet the turn (or raise/3bet pre, bet the flop, bet the turn, etc).

[pasita]

CBetting in PokerTracker is definitely only when you bet or raise at every opportunity - you raise preflop, bet the flop and bet the turn to cbet the turn (or raise/3bet pre, bet the flop, bet the turn, etc).

"bet or raise at every opportunity"
I cap pre, contbet-3bet-call flop (capped), bet out turn doesn't seem to count as (either) contbet (or donk bet).