Better 3Bet vs EP 2Bet

[jiazu]

Currently, the stats 3Bet vs EP 2Bet and 3Bet vs MP 2Bet exist. You can specify a position for this stat, so BTN vs EP, SB vs MP, etc. These stats take a terribly long time to converge, so I would like to have the additional option (like we have for Flop Cbet) to differentiate between In Position and Out of Position. This doesn't take as long to converge and will still reflect players tendencies accurately. You could just make it an optional addition to the stat, for those that think that's useful.

So now the Item Properties for 3Bet vs EP 2Bet look like this:



And I want to change it to this:



But instead of 'In Position on Flop' or 'Out of Position on Flop', it should be 'In Position Preflop' or 'Out of Position Preflop'.

Thanks!

[kraada]

The problem is that in and out of position preflop vary depending on the action and different people may even mean different things by it in the same hand.

For example:

EP opens you're in the CO and 3bet and the button 4bets.

Are you in position or out of position? You might want IP for the 3bet stat but OOP for the fold to 4bet stat which would end up being a programmatic disaster to create and maintain.

[jiazu]

Isn't it a simple case of:

If EP opens and there is an opportunity to 3bet from a player that has a position of MP, CO or BTN, how many times did the player 3bet (for the in position stat). Similarly, If EP opens and there is an opportunity to 3bet from the blinds, how often has the player in the blinds done so.

I think the situation you described where there was a cold4bet can just be treated as a fold to 4bet from the CO, irrespective of positions. Since the 3bet situation is much more common than the cold4bet, I think the 3bet stat is worth creating a positional distinction for whereas situations involving 4bets will be much less frequent.

[kraada]

You are certainly welcome to create one - but the inherent confusion in trying to figure out what counts as IP or OOP preflop will likely keep us from adding a property like that systemwide.