3bet stat calculation

[JayBee84]

Hi...

I am the owner of both PT3 and Hold'em Manager... By coincidence I've noticed that there is a difference to stats that should be the same between the 2 programs... An example is the 3-bet stat. So I tried to calculate a 3bet stat myself. I have a limit were I have only played 71 hands and I used them to do the calculations... I replayed them all in PT3 and noted how many times I had the opportunity to 3bet and how many times I did it... I was practicing being bully when I played the givin limit so out of 22 chances to 3bet I did it 6 times which equals 27.3%. However my PT3 3bet stat claims that I 3bet only 24% of the time at the givin limit, whereas Hold'em Manager has the correct (?) percentage of 27.3%?

Do you have any suggestions to what could be wrong?

[WhiteRider]

That looks like there is one hand which is recorded differently.
Try filtering for that limit and hands where you 3-bet ("Actions" tab) and compare which hands are found with what HM shows. If you can find a hand which is missing then if it should be a 3-bet but isn't included, please send the history for it to us via the Support system , and link to this thread in the reference field of the ticket so that we can investigate.

[JayBee84]

Ok... I have now noticed something new... When I filter for just that limit and look at my 3bet percentage under the "Hands" tab it displays my correct percentage of 27.3... Likewise when I don't use any filter I get the same 3bet percentage under the "Hands" tab as I get from HM... So now I would just like to know why this statistic doesn't have the same value in "player statistics" under the "General" tab?

[WhiteRider]

Are you using a date filter as well?
Do total hands values match between Hands and General tabs?

[JayBee84]

Ok... Finally I've figured out that there's a difference to 3bet percentage and preflop 3bet percentage... But the numbers still don't match with HM... I will look into this when I have more time and return to you if I have further issues... Thank you for your quick answers...

[WhiteRider]

YW - if you find any hands that are incorrectly reported, please tell us about them so that we can investigate and fix if needed.

[JayBee84]

I have now succeded to find the difference between HM and PT wich was a bit difficult since I don't limp very much... You see, the difference lies in that PT3 records an opportunity to 3bet when you have limped and somebody raises behind you, whereas HM doesn't record this as an opportunity to 3bet... I don't know which method of estimation is the correct method, but with players that limp a lot this makes a huge difference between the stats...

Another difference is in the fold to PF 3bet stat... In PT this is calculated straight out as the percentage of the time when you fold when you are facing a 3bet preflop... In HM this is calculated differently... In HM it is calculated as the percentage of the time you fold to a preflop 3bet, when YOU were the original raiser... This is what you really want to know... The PT stat mixes things up and practically compares apples and bananas in the same stat... You can't use a number that is based both on when YOU were the original raiser and when you for instance is in the BB with 72o and there's a raise and a reraise in front of you... This should be cleaned out like it is in HM... I don't know if PT already has such a stat but the fold to PF 3bet stat is just about useless...

[WhiteRider]

This is just a matter of preference, really - you can build either version as a Custom Stat in PT3.
Custom Statistics and Reports FAQ.

That's not to say that the definition of the 'standard' stat couldn't be changed.
Please create a ticket on the Support system , and link to this thread in the reference field of the ticket so that the developers are made aware of your thoughts.

[JayBee84]

I have now created a ticket for the support system.

But I must state that I strongly disagree that this should be a matter of preference. But maybe you could name me a situation in a pokergame or analyse situation where the PT "fold to PF 3bet" stat could be used for anything meaningful?

[WhiteRider]

Thanks.
Yes, I understand what you mean - if you want to see if when you made the first raise, you will need to build a custom stat.
What about when you have limped - I guess you would count it differently if you fold to a single raise or a 3-bet there?
Again, you could have a custom stat to separate this, if you prefer.