Table Average pot size stat?

[jharris]

I created a group in my PT3 HUD for Table statistics for VPIP and PFR.
In my old PT2 PAHUD I used ot show the average pot size for the table I was playing on.
I can't figure out how to show average pot size for the table I am playing on, any suggestions?
I tried $/100, but that gave me Negative numbers and I tried $/Hand and that gave 0?

[kraada]

Unfortunately this stat isn't available at this point. It is on our to-do list of things to add, but unfortunately I can't say for certain when it will be available.

[jharris]

Ok,
bummer but thanks for the quick reply (it was driving me crazy because I thought I was over looking someting).

For table stats, I use VPIP and PFR, which are great to see how loose and aggressive the table is playing.

Are there any other good/valuable table stats that you would recommend?

[kraada]

I don't personally use any table averages groups; I don't think they give me any really useful information. A table is only "loose" because certain players are loose. Before I act at a table I always look to see who's in, and who's left. If the loosies have folded and there are only two nits left in the blinds, I'll raise ATC from the button. Since the table averages really don't make a difference to how I would play a hand, I don't display them -- I already have enough stuff on my HUD, I don't need stuff I don't use

[JimmytheGeek]

kraada, I agree with your comments as to the usefulness of table averages when making playing decisions.

However, I think most people use table averages to assess the overall play at a table and determine whether to stay at a table or get up and leave. For example: if the average vpip and/or pfr at a table are high, but the average pot is small, it indicates that the loose/aggressive players are playing tighter/more passive than usual and the table will not be as profitable as the vpip/pfr alone would indicate.

Average pot size in the HUD is one more PT2/PAHUD feature that I would miss in PT3.

[kraada]

Don't get me wrong -- average pot size as a statistic is coming, but it will need a few changes to the database, as right now pot size isn't stored in the database, and if nobody bets it can't be computed. I'm not certain what will be our eventual solution, but that's at least one part of the reason why it's taken so long to get this stat.

I also know I'm somewhat masochistic -- I try and learn how to play against all player types and want to beat each one of them. If the average vpip and pfr are high but the average pot is small, I'll do one of two things:
(a) If people are getting to showdown a lot, value bet quite a bit thinner, but expect to have 0 fold equity and bluff just about never
(b) If people aren't getting to showdown much at all, fire two barrels a lot more and expect to have a ton of fold equity and just figure my actual monsters won't get paid off.

[JimmytheGeek]

I don't personally use any table averages groups; I don't think they give me any really useful information. A table is only "loose" because certain players are loose. Before I act at a table I always look to see who's in, and who's left. If the loosies have folded and there are only two nits left in the blinds, I'll raise ATC from the button. Since the table averages really don't make a difference to how I would play a hand, I don't display them -- I already have enough stuff on my HUD, I don't need stuff I don't use

I also know I'm somewhat masochistic -- I try and learn how to play against all player types and want to beat each one of them. If the average vpip and pfr are high but the average pot is small, I'll do one of two things:
(a) If people are getting to showdown a lot, value bet quite a bit thinner, but expect to have 0 fold equity and bluff just about never
(b) If people aren't getting to showdown much at all, fire two barrels a lot more and expect to have a ton of fold equity and just figure my actual monsters won't get paid off.

Ah, so you do, or did with PT2/PAHUD, display table averages. And they do/did make a difference to how you would play a hand!

[kraada]

Except I graduated to exploiting individual players.

Now I look at the guy who limped, see what his VP$IP - colored color is. If it's green+ and I'm in late position, raise pretty wide because he'll fold a huge amount (especially if his c-bet colored is green+).

I have WTSD and W$SD by position which has let me make some super thin value bets vs people who play like maniacs vs the blinds, or some folds vs super nits from EP, etc.

I think switching to play the players rather than the table is the way to go eventually . . .

[JimmytheGeek]

Except I graduated to exploiting individual players.

I think switching to play the players rather than the table is the way to go eventually . . .

I have never played the table nor do I advocate doing so.

What I do advocate is using the table averages to assess the overall profitability of a table.

Any time the average pot size drops below three big bets (in limit holdem) for several orbits, it's time to look for a more profitable table.

[kraada]

Ah, I didn't realize you played Limit. I don't play Limit, so I'll take your word for it