Application: HoldemLuck/TourneyLuck v0.20 (Updated:2/28/10)

General discussion of PokerTracker 3.

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Re: Application: HoldemLuck/TourneyLuck v0.14 (Updated: 3/11)

Postby Hextall » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:07 pm

Alonalbert,

Are you all done updating the program? If not... here's one suggestion:

I wanted to know how I ran in coinflips (which I defined as 45-55% equity). So I exported all my hands into excel... and did the following:

- rounded each hand's equity to a whole number
- calculated my win percentage for each whole number equity (for example... on all the hands I was a 53% favorite... I actually won 49% of the time.)
- Plotted each equity's results as a function of hte expected equity on a 1:1 plot (with a 1:1 line).
- set the x-range from 40-60%.
- Every dot over the line was me being lucky... every dot under the line... was me being unlucky at that expected win %.

I image this wouldn't be too hard to add to your luck applications (compared to the ICM calculations :D )... just make an extra graph for "Coinflips".

I'll try to post the figure later tonight to show what I mean.

My results... I'm winning more than expected for the 40-49% equity... but losing more coinflips when I'm the favorite (50-59%).
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Re: Application: HoldemLuck/TourneyLuck v0.14 (Updated: 3/11)

Postby Hextall » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:08 pm

Here's the plot I was talking about:

Image
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Re: Application: HoldemLuck/TourneyLuck v0.14 (Updated: 3/11)

Postby simsina » Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:46 am

I understand that since the difference is negative it means that I am running bad. But how bad am I running ?

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6286/graphc.jpg
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Re: Application: HoldemLuck/TourneyLuck v0.14 (Updated: 3/11)

Postby Clockwork Banana » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:48 pm

Yeah I wanted to ask the same question with regards to TourneyLuck. When your difference line is negative, you're running bad but since I don't know what other people's graph look like, it's hard to judge how bad you're doing. I mean how bad is bad. What's very bad?

Also when you look at things from a tournament chip point of view, things can be grossly misleading. If you have a big suckout or even win a coinflip at the last 2 tables of a tournament where the pots are in tens or hundreds of thousands (sometimes even millions), the results will be significantly affected by that one results. Since final 2 tables are relatively rare compared to the volume of tournaments one plays, you can't have enough hands at that level for things to even out.

Let's takes my tournament graph for instance. I won A4 against 88 at the final 2 tables of a tournament in January and while the pot represented say 30 BBs it was in the hundred's of thousands. Now this is just one dominated suckout yet it completely overwhelms the rest of the data. Now had the program showed two bad beats that happenned to me in November where I lost a multi-million dollar pot at the final table KK against 1010 and a few weeks before that AA against J8 :shock: (those happenned in the months just before I installed PT), the difference line would have tanked by a few millions making the A4 vs 88 500K pot relatively insignificant in comparison.

Obviously a single 500K pot suckout at the business end of the tournament can't make up for 100 5K pots bad beats lost early in an MTT or 1000 $500 pots lost in SNGs.

Perhaps over the very long term and after many final tables and legions of final 2 and 3 tables the result would even out of but it would take years if not decades for you to line up 100 final tables and thousands of final 2 or 3 tables large field MTTs where the pots grow to such massive amounts.

Looking at the number of BBs you were expected to win or lose is a much better way to assess things although I have given it some thoughts and that also has significant limitations. For instance, because your stack has more BBs at the begining of a tournament than at the end of the tournament (you start with 75 to 150 BBs whereas in mid tourney the average stack is about 20BBs), a negative difference line could simply be representative of the fact that you had a lot of bad beat early when the blinds were low relative to the average stack size. But at least it allows you to compare things that are comparable.

Anyway it's a good question. Looking at my graph and yours, I see a red line under the zero level but I have no idea how bad that is compared to other people's. I meant to post about this very subject actually. Can anyone tell us what your graphs look like? What kind of range do you guys have? And in your opinion what is slightly unlucky, very unlucky and... I'd be careful next time you cross the road type of bad luck!
:mrgreen:
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Re: Application: HoldemLuck/TourneyLuck v0.14 (Updated: 3/11)

Postby Clockwork Banana » Sun Apr 05, 2009 10:37 pm

Oh the other thing I meant to say was about the look of your graph. You'll notice that apart from that blip at the beginning, your difference line has been yoyoing between -150K and +100K crossing the zero line on many occasions. It means your luck is up and down and that's the way it should be. Looking at that pattern I'd bet the 2 lines will cross again.

So I wouldn't say you're running bad, in fact your running pretty neutral given how the 2 lines have crossed again and again on a number of occasions over time. But you've been running bad since the 6400th hand or so.

I would also imagine you are playing mostly SNGs or small field MTTs since your graph does not seem to have erratic patterns (apart from that bump at the beginning which must have been late in an MTT)

I wonder what your lines look like in BB terms.
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Re: Application: HoldemLuck/TourneyLuck v0.14 (Updated: 3/11)

Postby de_Poel » Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:25 am

Hi, first of all thanks for the application I really like it. I do have a suggestion for TourneyLuck. Is it possible to show a percentage graph al an alternative for the chip count? I have one hand in which I was lucky and won a lot of chips and that messed up my graph. Using percentages in tournament play gives a more acurate picture of how lucky you are.

Robert
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Re: Application: HoldemLuck/TourneyLuck v0.14 (Updated: 3/11)

Postby el_hombre » Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:56 pm

Hi,
do Fixed Limit player benefit from this application? You wrote that even the money at other street (before the all in situation) is included.
Or does this only work for NL games with no results for FL, or has results that are not interpretable for fixed limit?
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Re: Application: HoldemLuck/TourneyLuck v0.14 (Updated: 3/11)

Postby alonalbert » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:28 pm

Hextall wrote:Are you all done updating the program? If not... here's one suggestion:

To be honest, I'm not that interested in adding this feature. It's just not an interesting metric to me. I don't really care how good/bad I run in different situations. Just how good.bad I run in general. I mean, if I loose 10 coin flips in a row for $5 each and suck out once time for a $50 pot, I can't complain about running bad can I?
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Re: Application: HoldemLuck/TourneyLuck v0.14 (Updated: 3/11)

Postby alonalbert » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:31 pm

simsina wrote:I understand that since the difference is negative it means that I am running bad. But how bad am I running ?

I don't think you are running too bad. You are a bit under being even but your red line level is much lower than your green/blue so it's just normal variance.

That said, with tournaments, it's hard to say really because of situational circumstances. That's why ICM is so important but unfortunately, I gave up on ICM calculations for now.
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Re: Application: HoldemLuck/TourneyLuck v0.14 (Updated: 3/11)

Postby alonalbert » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:32 pm

de_Poel wrote:Hi, first of all thanks for the application I really like it. I do have a suggestion for TourneyLuck. Is it possible to show a percentage graph al an alternative for the chip count? I have one hand in which I was lucky and won a lot of chips and that messed up my graph. Using percentages in tournament play gives a more acurate picture of how lucky you are.

Robert

Percentage of what? All chips in play? Problem is, I don't know how many players are in the tournament.
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